An interview with Matthew Barber-Rowell

We talk to Matthew Barber-Rowell to find out about his new book, Curating Spaces of Hope: Transformational leadership for uncertain times.

Hello Matthew. What made you want to write this book? What inspired you to tackle the topic?

There are many reasons. The simplest reason is that hope has been a key consideration for me over many years, and so I wanted to set this out, so that it might provide hope to others. In Chapter 3 I cover a 15-year journey from graduating university to the beginning of midlife. My hope was that by drawing together experiences in this way, it might be possible to discern hope in other spaces too. Indeed, Chapter 4 onwards really sets this out. I have been deeply blessed by others that I have encountered during my journey, so this book is paying that forward. There is a more strategic consideration though, in that the subject of the book is ultimately leadership. We are in a world that is being subjected to highly suspect leadership practices, driven by dark and divisive worldviews. These do not emerge overnight, but rather emerge over a generation. This book is a call to action for the next generation of leaders to bring about change and to share what I refer to in Chapter 8 as ‘radical hope’.

I wonder if you’d quickly introduce those of us who may not be familiar with him to the figure of William Temple, who you discuss in this book. What do we need to understand about him, his work and his legacy?

William Temple was the Bishop of Manchester, Archbishop of York and then Archbishop of Canterbury. He died in 1944 at the age of 63. He was known for his public theology and his contribution to the welfare state, a phrase he coined, which emerged after his death in post-War Britain. Temple was widely regarded for his influence as one of the foremost theologians of the 20th century. His most famous publication was Christianity and Social Order, where he set out his approach to leadership in the phase of protracted uncertainty created by the world war and many other crises of the time. Temple was committed to engaging with those who are different to him, which ranged from supporting ecumenical movements, to inter-faith work, to pursuing reform agendas both within the church and across society. Temple was referred to as a ‘jovial prophet’ and engaged in hopeful dialogues with communities across the UK and around the world. Temple’s legacy comprises the Temple Tradition of public theology, which is highly interdisciplinary, prioritises the role of lived experience and diverse engagement with theological education, and which wrestles with questions of leadership by both people and institutions alike.

What does leadership mean to you? Where do you think this differs from the general cultural (or even popular Christian) ideas of what it means?

I take a broad view of leadership. I think we each have the capacity for leadership and can contribute each from our own positionality and worldview. What you won’t find in the book is a specific prescription for what leadership looks like. However, you will find a broad definition based on characteristics that we all have in common, and principles that we can each use as a guide or inner compass for how we do things. Two leadership principles that are key are freedom and authenticity. I argue that we should use our freedom for others, not from others. What this means is freedom should be used to unite people, not divide them. This strikes me as a deeply countercultural orientation in our world today. I also argue that authenticity is not a purely personal and subjective idea that one can determine in totality for themselves. Instead, authenticity is an outward question that is asked of and answered by others and by the worldviews shaping the environments we live in. So, we can’t claim to have united the people or to speak on behalf of the people, without genuinely listening to those people to understand whether or not what we are claiming is the case. Another point of difference is that the approach I am advocating for is not based on power first, but values first. Leadership that is based on power and control will not last. Leadership that is rooted in lived values that pays due accord and respect for differences that characterise creation, will proliferate hope.

Who would you like to reach with this book, or who do you think needs to read it?

I would like to reach those who are taking part in the existential search that is shaping society and the world today. For me, this search is by definition a search for hope. So I want to reach others on this pilgrimage and add resources and stories and some ideas that can be used by others and might inspire the transformation that we need. I would like to reach anyone who has lived through crises in their own life. I hope this book is a testament to the inherent value we each have made in the image of God and that those people who are living through crises are known and they are seen, even if they feel as if they have been failed by those they should have been able to rely on. Finally, I would like to reach anyone who has the privilege of curating spaces or shaping environments that others then spend time in and are affected by. I would like to reach this group as this book is about how to undertake that task whilst sharing lived, authentic and radical hope. That is what we need right now, so I hope to reach people who can ensure access to this hope for all.

Is there anything in this book that you think would surprise people?

This is a difficult question. I have been living with this work for a long time so in some ways, I’m too close to know what is surprising. People might be surprised by the personal nature of the accounts shared in Chapter 3. However, it felt important to me to evidence my own positionality and my own lived experience before asking others to consider theirs. There’s something about leadership not asking of others things that one is not willing to do themselves. We live in a society where the story is one of power, tribalism and division. So people might also be surprised by the common ground that can be found between citizens of different worldviews and the hope that is on offer not just for those with a particular outlook, but for all citizens seeking to contribute to society.

What is the one thing that you’d most like to take away from this – the key message you’d want people to hear?

It may not seem like it but, there is always hope.

Thanks for talking to us, Matthew.

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Curating Spaces of Hope is published this month and can be ordered here (with 20% off all pre-orders in March 2025).

Matthew Barber a research fellow at the William Temple Foundation, and Transformation Support Officer for the Diocese of Manchester.